Some Questions for America

I agree that base jumping should be legal in national parks, but it sounds like you guys and gun owners are on equal footing at the moment – you can bring your loaded backpack into the park, but you can’t discharge your parachute

I just hope you get the right to discharge your parachute before they get the right to discharge their guns….

Does the National Park Service say why it’s illegal ? I can see why it could be problematic in Yosemite valley with all the tourists and cars, but there must be other more remote areas where it shouldn’t be a problem.

I think that base jumping should be allowed, as well as the carrying of firearms. Responsible gun owners (i.e. Law abiding folks) don’t misuse the right to carry weapons in the wild. Lots of long distance hikers carry them. The key word is “law abiding”.

Base jumping should also be allowed….there is simply no reason to prohibit it. As you noted, base jumpers either land safely and correctly…or end up right at the base of the cliff. Climbers dropping gear and poop tubes are a bigger hazard to people on the ground than jumpers.

I’m from the UK so I do not understand the gun thing but why would you need a gun all of a sudden in the national parks? Is it due to danger of animals?

Anyway, they should let BASE jumping be legal. I agree with all your points

Damon

Damon,

The gun thing is because of the Constitution. 230 years ago some people thought it a good idea to let everyone carry guns in case the government becomes tyrannical. It’s supposed to be a check on it, but nowadays of course it’s a toothless think but for some reason most right wing people have a sentimental attachment to the issue.

Hi Steph,
You are right, but all that is political, guns vote and bring money!
In France jumping from cliff are forbidden in parks and reserves. And actually, we got the same problem for the future national park of Calanques (near Marseille) that will allowed hunting but not jumping from its cliffs!!! We’re trying to fight against that!
But it is really difficult to be accepted as a non-impact activity, because we are carrying on our shoulders a “bad image” of non responsible persons and we are less representative compare to climbers too… Our French association of cliff jumping (we call “Paralpinisme”) had a lot of work for future. Nice post.
more > http://paralpinisme.base-jump.org/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=649#p649

The reason for carrying a loaded handgun is to provide people an opportunity to protect themselves from those who would do them harm. Have you not seen or read all the news stories over the last several years about crime in national parks and wildlife refuges? If you or someone you care about is assaulted, robbed, raped or murdered in a national park or wildlife refuge, maybe you’ll realize that even if you don’t agree with the whole “gun thing,” that allowing others to defend themsleves (and maybe even you) from criminals is not such a bad thing after all. And comparing the legality of being allowed to carry a firearm in a national park or wildlife refuge to the legality of BASE jumping makes no sense whatsoever… BTW, I don’t think BASE jumping should be illegal as well.

Allow base jumping and allow guns, this is America and the land is public. If you are not causing unreasonable impacts why shouldn’t you be allowed to do what you want whatever it is. The Guns in NPs is a dumb debate I don’t think the Yellowstone crips will be popping up anytime soon. Law abiding citizens have the constitutional right to bear arms, I don’t see why that’s so hard to understand for everyone. Really there is not a debate to have. Although there is no constitutional right to base jump you should have the right to recreate anyway you like on public land as long as you are not causing harm to the natural resource or other visitors. Outdoor recreation is some what dangerous by nature so the argument of safety is silly also. I would guess that there were more wildlife attacks then base jumping accidents last years. On a side note good for you having heli evac. insurance that is awesome and responsible and a trend that needs to make it way to more areas of outdoor recreation. Maybe a post on how and where to purchase it would be helpful. But anyways that my 20 cents.

B,

It’s not toothless and not everyone with a gun is right wing your narrow mindedness is a shame. I am “left wing” and saved my brother and moms life with the gun I legally and rightfully carried. Guns may not be appropriate in all settings but I don’t think that is for DC to decide for me. I respect your right to no carry one so please respect my right too. Every study shows that if an accident was to happen from my carrying of a gun it is most likely going to harm me or some one related to me. Like everything else in life weather it’s a car, base jumping, or a gun personal responsibility is the issue nothing else.

Apparently you guys (gun owners) are right, and you have done a great job of insisting on your rights under the US constitution.

It would seem logical and fair for base jumpers to have the same rights, as taxpayers and land users. How can we do that too, and re-gain our rights to use public land without being harassed, having our gear stolen, being dragged into federal court, and being fined?

Also, to answer your question about the heli/evac insurance:
I have a SPOT messenger device. http://findmespot.com/en/
This is a GPS device that allows you to signal either selected friends/family with your GPS coordinates, or central rescue. When you pay for that yearly service (about $100), you can add $100,000 worth of helicopter evac insurance for an additional $7.95/year. The heli rescue insurance is worth purchasing the SPOT device if only for that. When traveling in Europe, you can buy international health/accident insurance for specific time periods through IHI.com. They are an excellent insurance company when traveling out of country, and I have friends who used it and were really glad they bought it, even though they have US health insurance. Sometimes there is a disconnect between the US and international providers, and you want to make sure you can get what you need when you need it, without a horrible “surprise” bill once you are back home…

It’s true, from what I’ve seen so far, hiking accidents and rescues are the number one in terms of frequency, cost and time in backcountry areas and parks. They represent the greatest load on rescue resources, and most recreational hikers do not carry a full arsenal of personal rescue insurances and devices.
Base jumpers, on the other hand, are used to being self sufficient, and tend to be extremely well prepared for accidents, both on the scene and with coverage. Interestingly, the last major NPS court case against base jumpers cited the concern of rescue cost as the main reason for ruling to persecute base jumping (and anyone in the area who happened to see any base jumpers and anyone who has ever even THOUGHT about base jumping–just kidding, sort of). http://tinyurl.com/yapzksf

I’m wondering if the National Park Service is worried about potential lawsuits or insurance costs if they allowed basejumpers to go nuts in park? I’m not justifying it by any means because I think its not their responsibility to neither insure or be held accountable in my opinion.

That being said, I like what you just commented above my comment, if pro-gun people can succeed in getting them to repeal the anti-gun law, then basejumpers have a chance to fight the rule.

I would personally pay for a annual pass or a steeper entrance fee to most of these parks if they would allow me more liberty to do more in the park.

Keep up the good topics!

Damon,

The Second Amendment says:
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

You carrying a gun has nothing to with the US’s ability to field a well regulated Militia, hence I said that it’s toothless. Packing heat creates an environment of violence, that’s why you’re only allowed to have concealed weapons with other restrictions even though it’s against the literal reading of the Constitution.

In the state of Wyoming the only restriction to having a concealed weapon is not being a convicted felon, or convicted of domestic violence Meaning: (law abiding Americans). All other residents and visitors are allowed to bear arms concealed or not. So rational non violent people with a weapon concealed are not a problem Neither is a gun, a gun has no feelings no brain and no intrinsic ability to act any way, so to say guns create an environment of violence is incorrect. I would love to see your facts on that. Once again Wyoming’s population to gun ratio is one of the highest in the nation however our crime rate involving guns is one of the lowest per capita disproving your statement.

The modern interpretation by the US government of the second amendment is:
The right to keep and bear arms, often referred as the right to bear arms or the right to have arms, is the assertion that people have a personal right to weapons for individual use, or a collective right to bear arms in a militia, or both. In this context, “arms” refers to a variety of weapons and armor.

In response to how to get base jumping allowed? I do feel bad for you and support it 1000 percent. BUt its a tough one but it starts with everyone standing up for freedoms of all kinds not just the ones you enjoy or believe in. Freedom to recreate should extend to everything and anything that will not cause unreasonable damage to the NR itself.

Wyoming has 0.1% of the US population and the lowest density on the mainland, so it’s hardly representative. Apparently there’s no age limit for carrying a gun. Do you think the majority of law abiding citizens prefers if guns were allowed in all public schools ?

Steph,

I think the answer to getting the NPS to “change its mind” about Base Jumping is to approach the problem with this in mind: The NPS, which has been around for 93 years, is like somebody’s retired Police Captain Father, with arthritis. Paternal and protective, but at this point, crotchety and with an emphasis on “Protect” rather than “Serve”.
The structure of the NPS has become, over the years, identical to the structure of Law Enforcement….although the PEOPLE who choose the NPS as a career still tend to be people who, by and large, simply love the outdoors.
The tendency of LE organizations is to follow the regulations, without judgement, no matter whether they agree or disagree with them. It is not the people of the NPS that prohibit base-jumping, it is the RULES of the NPS,
You’ve got to change the rules, and the rules are set at the top.
That means you need legislation, or you need a photograph of the head of the NPS in bed with a goat. Since I’m not aware of any photographs as such, you’re going to have to go the legislation route (which means politics, which means money). So:
1. Get some money: Find a wealthy group of outdoorsy folks and introduce them to base jumping. I’m thinking Silicon Valley. Ask your Web designer.
2. Get some clout: See if you can find a sympathetic, outdoorsy Congressman who would be willing to put a provision as a rider on a Bill. Preferably a Bill which includes ongoing funding for the NPS. It will have to pass.
That’s how the banking industry repealed 100 years of regulation, and created our economic crisis: They tacked a rider on a completely innocuous Bill at the last hour of the last day of the Congress in the late 90′s. Worked like a charm.
3. Also, talk to base jumpers who got the one day “Full Access Base Jumping” thing set up in the New River Gorge. Get stats on how successful that has been in opening up that span to jumpers. http://www.officialbridgeday.com/base-jumping

It won’t be easy, but surely there is *some* retired base jumper that wants to make it a project to lead such an effort?

Plan B: Talk to the folks at Birdman or Phoenix and see if they can make you a suit out of this new Invisibility Fabric..it will help with the “fly and flee”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1227280/We-seeing-Harry-Potters-invisibility-suit-sooner-think.html

Cheers.

Less protecting, more serving! I like it!
Your ideas are very good…sounds more like “Land of the Expensive” than “Land of the Free.”

Anybody got a spare million dollars, or a best friend in the Senate, so we can jump off cliffs without being tossed in the slammer, and the rangers can focus their energy on catching actual criminals?
xxSteph

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Chiming in on an old topic here. Steph, you are pretty much correct. Firearm manufacturers and lobbyists have lots of money and lots of “friends” in the government. It would take a lot more than just a million dollars to change the law.

Comparing these two subjects is like apples to oranges though and really have nothing to do with one another.

I think one of the biggest problems with allowing base jumping in parks is that it could cause deaths that could otherwise have been avoided. Example in point, say some person sees another base off of El Cap. They decide they want to try it. Having no experience, they go buy a second hand chute and hurl themselves off the side. They even manage to open their chute, but due to lack of experience; they get caught by the wind and slammed into the side of the wall and end up badly hurt or dead. Also, when someone is trying to protest the ban by illegally base jumping and then dies in the act, well that doesn’t give law makers a positive outlook.

There are some things that we all could do to help the cause. Make information about base jumping more easily available. Maybe a jump rating system (like climb rating system) at least for National Parks. Some kind of base jumper rating or license (like skydiving). Parks would be more willing to allow jumps for those who show to have proper experience and know what they are doing. As it is right now, there is no way for a ranger to know the difference between someone who knows what they are doing and someone who doesn’t.

Climbingguy123 also has some great ides as well. In the end it takes someone to take action on it. If we all just sit on the cliff and get grumpy because we can’t jump off it, nothing will happen. It would be awesome if we could find a passionate leader in the bunch of us who could spearhead an action group or annoy the hell out of politicians to help get the law changed.